If you’ve ever dreamed of taking a ride on a polar express with a difference, a discussion with friends about the best and worst Christmas songs might be just what you’re looking for.

It’s important to realize that there will be different opinions…in fact, many of them. Two recurring (pun intended) battles revolve around “Last Christmas” by Wham! and separately, Paul McCartney’s “Wonderful Christmastime.” An informal social media poll across all my accounts found a near-universal hatred of Mariah Carey’s “All I Want for Christmas is You.” We’re sure you probably have some thoughts to add to the opinion pool too.

We addressed this and other topics in the latest episode of the UCR podcast. You can listen to our entire discussion below (and wherever you get your podcasts). Selected excerpts from our conversation follow.

1) What are some of the hallmarks of a good Christmas song?

Allison Rapp: I love the kind of Christmas covers where you can clearly see that it’s that person’s style and no one else could have done it the same way. For example, Bruce Springsteen’s “Santa Claus is Comin’ to Town”, which for me is a typical E Street record. The recording, the arrangement, no one else could have done the song like that. So these are my favorite classic rock Christmas songs that you can tell are very true to that person’s unique, original style.

Watch Bruce Springsteen perform “Santa Claus is Comin’ to Town.”

Corey Irwin: As far as characteristics go, I think every Christmas song needs to capture that spirit. I know it’s a very general term, but I think there’s something very whimsical about Christmas. There’s something nostalgic about it. So if someone is trying to create something new, they need to access it. If that’s not the case, I immediately feel like everyone will just dismiss it as a money grab.

READ MORE: 30 sad holiday songs

2) What bothers you about holiday songs that may be more formulaic?

Irwin: There’s the checklist theory: I’m making a Christmas song, so I have to fulfill all of these points. I need to hit Santa, I need to hear reindeer, I need to hit snowmen – I need all of these things. It means forcing something unnecessary into it, if it doesn’t fit the story, the song, the lyrics, it feels disingenuous. I think that can sound really jarring to a listener. An example that happened to me recently: when you click on Spotify or whatever, it shows you a playlist. You start with artists you know and then of course the algorithm adds things and you don’t know what you’re going to get. I got this Gwen Stefani/Blake Shelton Christmas song, “You Make it Feel Like Christmas,” and it may be one of the worst, not just Christmas songs, but recordings, that I have ever heard in my life. It’s just so painful because it doesn’t even sound like they like each other. I know they’re a couple, but I don’t think they like each other in the song. It just sounds like they’re both “sticking on the Christmas tape” so to speak to get some streams and that’s it. It’s like, well, this isn’t Christmas. That’s no fun. I don’t want to listen to this while trying to spend some time with my family. It just felt very fake and fake.

Bryan Rolli: That’s just capitalism, which one could argue is actually the real reason for the season. But if we talk about musical value, this is a pretty bad song. I think unsuccessful Christmas songs take all of these elements that should traditionally be in a Christmas song and use those things in place of an actual narrative and story to tell. You can also go the other way and become overly sentimental and sentimental. I have nothing against a melancholy Christmas, but today, for example, I was out doing something and I happened to turn on the radio. Bob Seger’s version of “Little Drummer Boy” was playing, and that’s not one of my favorite Christmas songs. I just feel like it’s so overwrought. There is so much emphasis on conveying, “Yes, this is a serious Christmas song. I sing about a serious topic. You have to listen to the song with awe and respect.” And it’s as if no one questioned the value of the song at all. This version becomes so ponderous that listening is a challenge.

Watch the “Last Christmas” video from Wham! to

3) How do you feel about the whole Whamageddon thing where people try to avoid hearing “Last Christmas” by Wham? until Christmas Eve?

Matt Wardlaw: To me it’s a bit like Rick Astley’s “Never Gonna Give You Up” and people listening to “Rickrolled.” This has become something of a Christmas version of that, with people doing everything they can to avoid getting “caught” by “Last Christmas.” The song itself is such a polarizing thing. People either like it or hate it. But if you like it, why should you wait to experience that joy and try to avoid the song?

Rolli: I understand it. In this case, I’m a big fan of “Last Christmas.” I think it’s a beautiful song and I think it’s one of my favorite rock/pop Christmas songs. I don’t put myself in that many scenarios where I’m likely to listen to Christmas music. I don’t have the radio on very often. I don’t work in retail. Most days I don’t really leave my house between 9am and 5pm because of the benefit of working remotely. If I were to be in these types of environments more often, I would probably get tired of it very quickly, just like I constantly get tired of Mariah Carey’s “All I Want For Christmas is You.” If I never heard that again, it would be too soon. So I understand the logic behind such a game. But honestly, I’m at the point where, when “Last Christmas” comes out, I still look at it as a sort of reprieve from some of the worst Christmas songs.

READ MORE: 20 Christmas Songs Everyone Should Play Instead of Mariah Carey

4) What do you think are some of the worst Christmas songs?

Rap: I am a long-time, loyal fan of John Lennon. Always was and always will be. But I can’t get through “Happy Xmas (War is Over).” I don’t know if it’s the children’s choir aspect. I can’t even put my finger on it, but to me it just keeps blaring and I can’t hear the whole song through. I don’t think I’ve sat through the entire song in years. I can’t stand it.

Wardlaw: I’m happy to hear that from you. When this song comes on the radio, I know it’s supposed to convey a positive message…

Rap: …yes, of unity and goodness. I don’t know what that says about me, but I hate it.

Rolli: I’m with you both. I think if I have to look at it structurally as objectively as possible, the song is fine. But at this point, it’s as if his goodness, sincerity and importance stands on its own. Since people usually use it as a counterpoint to “Wonderful Christmastime,” they try to argue that “Happy Xmas” is a better song than that. It’s like, “Look at this, this real Christmas song, between the two of them! It’s proof that John Lennon was better than Paul McCartney!” It’s over the top and I have a Pavlovian reaction to it. Likewise, I can no longer hear the whole thing.

Listen to the “Best and Worst Christmas Songs” episode of the “UCR Podcast.”

Irwin: I like it. You know, part of it is – and this goes for all Christmas songs – I remember my parents playing this song when I was little, so I have a very positive memory of hearing this song at Christmas time. It evokes a certain nostalgia for me, so I have a personal connection to it. I’m probably missing some of the things you guys are talking about. That being said, I’m definitely in the group of people who hate “The Wonderful Holidays.” I think I understand why to some extent. Let’s say it’s 1979 and someone comes up to you and says, “Babe, wake up! Paul McCartney released a Christmas song!” You think, “Are you serious?” That’s one of the greatest, if not the greatest songwriters of all time, this is going to be great. This will change Christmas every year. It’s going to be special.’ Then you hear ‘Wonderful Christmastime’ and it’s such a disappointment. You know, the Band Aid song “Do They Know it’s Christmas” probably has the same idea. They have some of the greatest musicals So there’s a disappointment that comes with it that probably affects the way you look at it, if someone I’d never heard of had released “Wonderful Christmastime” I probably just would ignore. But because it’s Paul McCartney, I think: Manthat’s so lame!

Watch Paul McCartney’s “Wonderful Christmastime” video

5) Which Christmas songs do you really like?

Wardlaw: I know this isn’t a hard sell for Allison, but I like “Christmas All Over Again” by Tom Petty and the Heartbreakers. This is a long-time favorite – and for similar reasons Corey talked about. I first heard some of these songs when I was a kid, so I’m still very sentimental, and this Petty song is definitely one of them for me.

READ MORE: Rock’s Greatest Christmas Songs: The Stories Behind 15 Classics

Irwin: I think Joni Mitchell’s “River” is a classic song, one of those songs that hits you right in the heart when you hear it. It kind of fits what Bryan was saying, that it has that melancholy aspect to it, and it’s also personal and personable – and a Christmas song that’s just tangentially about Christmas. It’s not about your head. So this is one that I will always listen to no matter what.

Rap: “River” is definitely on my list too. Joni Mitchell, I don’t think you can make a Christmas playlist without including at least one or two sad Christmas songs. In this sense also “Please Come Home for Christmas”, the song by the Eagles. This is usually in my rotation. Also, I really love it and only listened to it the other day because I was talked into hosting my friend’s annual little Christmas party and I was in charge of the music – I happened to come across the Ray Charles version of “Santa Claus is Coming into town.” This version is really great, really smooth and authentic to his own style.

Rolli: I really like “Little Saint Nick” by the Beach Boys. Lyrically it may contradict a lot of what I’ve said about what makes a good Christmas song, but it simply showcases their strengths as a band. I love the harmonies. It’s so catchy. I always remember the Coca-Cola commercial where he’s with the big polar bear, so there are positive memories there, great associations. I’m also a big fan of Elvis Presley’s version of “Blue Christmas.” I love the vocals on it. It has this mixture of a very slight melancholy, perhaps in the subject matter, but at the same time a bit campy. It’s a classic.

Watch the Beach Boys’ “Little Saint Nick” video