• James Mangold spoke to Business Insider about his Bob Dylan biopic “A Complete Unknown.”
• Mangold explained why Timothée Chalamet used Dylan’s voice on set, even when he wasn’t filming.
• He called the real Dylan’s willingness to take notes on the script a “huge gift.”

Writer-director James Mangold still remembers exactly where he was and what he was doing five years ago when he decided to make a biopic about Bob Dylan.

He was in a hotel room in Canada for the Toronto International Film Festival when he took a break from preparing for the world premiere of his 2019 film Ford v Ferrari to meet with Timothée Chalamet, a then-young one Actor on the verge of superstardom.

It didn’t take long for Mangold to realize he had found his Dylan. As Chalamet left the room, the two agreed to make a film about the life and times of one of American music’s most popular singer-songwriters.

Things may not have gotten off the ground as quickly as they’d hoped — COVID happened, Chalamet made the first “Dune” movie, Mangold made “Indiana Jones and the Dial of Destiny” — but over those five years, the two have continued to stay together in contact and made separate pilgrimages to Dylan.

Finally, “A Complete Unknown” is released in theaters, which chronicles Dylan’s rise to fame alongside Joan Baez (Monica Barbaro) and his controversial switch from acoustic guitar to electric guitar in the mid-1960s.

Mangold is one of the few directors working today who has the skill and Hollywood studio experience to make a Bob Dylan biopic. After finding success with his 2005 Johnny Cash biopic Walk the Line, which earned its leads Joaquin Phoenix an Oscar nomination and Reese Witherspoon an Oscar, Disney’s Searchlight Pictures division knew the project was in capable hands.

“A Complete Unknown” is not a copy of “Walk the Line.” While the latter delved into the dynamic between Johnny Cash and June Carter, “A Complete Unknown,” which Mangold co-wrote with Jay Cocks (“Gangs of New York”), examines the myth-making surrounding Dylan and how his talents rose to the folk music scene the 1960s.

But just as Mangold used “Walk the Line” as a showcase for Phoenix’s talents, he did the same with Chalamet in “A Complete Unknown.” From speaking in Dylan’s voice even when the camera wasn’t rolling, to his own singing, to growing out his fingernails (more on that later), Chalamet immersed himself in Dylan’s aura, resulting in the best performance of his career to date.

Business Insider spoke with Mangold over Zoom about Chalamet’s commitment to the role, whether the disappointing box office for “Dial of Destiny” is making him hesitant about developing his upcoming “Star Wars” film and whether he thinks Bob Dylan will ever make “A Complete.” unknown.

Business Insider: You’ve now met Johnny Cash and Bob Dylan while filming their biopics. Have you developed an icebreaker when meeting legends for the first time?

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James Mangold: No. I don’t have one. But the good thing is that the script is the icebreaker. They invited me into their houses or rooms because they read a script I wrote. So we have something to discuss. I mean, when I met with Bob, the icebreaker was him charmingly waxing poetic about how much he loved my old movie Cop Land. That in itself was weird and flattering.

Do you think Dylan will ever see A Complete Unknown?

I have no idea.

What does your gut feeling tell you?

I honestly have no idea. The reality is that I spent a lot of quality time with him and felt like I had a good feeling for him. He does things when he is ready, he engages when he is ready, and makes comments when he is ready.

I understand his dilemma. Do I ever want to watch a movie where a guy plays me and reenacts important moments in my life? Will this just be pleasant or will it be weird as hell? So the fact that he took the time to read my script, give me notes, give me advice, give me ideas, show me where he would make improvements in some songs, and give me his wisdom and insights To be able to benefit from this time so that I can delve even deeper into these scenes was a great gift and all the generosity I could ever hope for from him.

Watching DA Pennebaker’s Bob Dylan documentary Don’t Look Back confirmed something in your film: Dylan had some gnarly fingernails.

Yes.

Did Timmy outgrow them or did he have artificial nails put on?

Yes, he grew them. If you look at the beginning of the film, there are some scenes where they aren’t that long. In the end, he had a full-fledged Nosferatu game on his hands.

Much has been written about Timmy being Method during filming, particularly how he spoke in the Dylan voice when not filming. I would imagine that a lot of it has to do with the fact that he just doesn’t want to lose his voice, right?

Timmy isn’t the only one who’s ever done this. This also applies to most of the actors in my films who speak dialects. You don’t just do it and fall out of the scene the second the scene ends because –

There is a fear of losing your voice.

Well, you try to internalize it more and more. You try to make it something you don’t have to think about. So when you turn it on and off, be aware of it. If you just decide to live in it, that’s a completely different matter.

Boyd Holbrook plays Johnny Cash in the film. Was there ever an idea to call Joaquin Phoenix and ask if he would do the Johnny Cash scenes?

The thought occurred to me, but then I realized he would be 20 to 30 years too old to play the role.

But you know movie magic, James! The hair and makeup department would have helped him look younger.

Okay, but then why should I wait? That kind of meta-movie universe stuff that’s plagued us enough already? I’m a big fan of making a film and showing it to the public. Don’t try to connect the film to another film, just own it. Otherwise, films will simply become overpriced television series where we constantly produce new episodes every few years.

Speaking of episodic films, that’s you He is currently developing a “Star Wars” film. Do you feel less confident about working on it when you see what happened to it? Reception for “Dial of Destiny”?

Well, Dial of Destiny has an 87% rating on Rotten Tomatoes. I mean, yeah, they would have hoped it would make more money, but actually I’m not particularly ashamed of a movie that 87% of its fans like.

The problem with Star Wars isn’t that I worry about whether there’s an angry or disgruntled group that’s somehow disappointed by what I did in Dial of Destiny. Honestly, that’s their prerogative, it’s part of what makes movies great: you can think they’re great, or you can think they’re terrible. I can’t please everyone and I’m sorry if they don’t like it.

But when it comes to Star Wars, the bottom line is that I don’t even know if that’s the next movie for me. This is something Beau Willimon and I are writing right now, and all the other pitfalls and judgments along the way. I don’t want to do it unless it’s excellent.

This interview has been edited and condensed for length and clarity.